PBA Rule Changes Flip The Association 360 Degrees - Season 4 Ep 18 - Down Lane Podcast

The guys are in the shop discussing their week on the lanes, the PBA Players Championship, and how the PBA hardness rule has impacted the tournament.
#PBA #PlayersChampionship #Bowling

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Hosts:
Kyle Haines
Anthony Scaccia

Producer:
Austin Van Buren

Music: 
Active Aggression

Transcript

Thank you.
It kind of helped him advance.
I mean, do you think this was a conspiracy?
Gotta go with Jacob Butter.
Gotta go lefty.
No, we're talking about the players.
That's a tournament champion.
There he is right there.
Oh, he doesn't even know how to watch.
Go to YouTube.com and search Downlane Podcast.
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
Welcome to Downlane Podcast.
We are streaming live from the lab at Town & Country Lanes.
I'm your host, Kyle Haynes, and with me is the assistant to the host, Anthony Skacia.
Hi.
Hi.
Also with us, as always, the producer, Austin Van Buren.
What's going on, Austin?
Welcome.
Welcome.
We got two finalists from the club tournament this weekend in the house.
The champion of the Town and Country Lanes Tournament Club, Anthony Skatia.
Congratulations on your big win this weekend.
Thank you.
You took home the check of $100.
I think I, yeah.
That's about as much as it was.
It's always good to get out there and succeed.
Thank you, Pizza Wings.
Pizza Wings, welcome to the show.
With his comments, as always, holding up Anthony with a big boo.
Steely Bones, how you doing tonight?
Bones was also there.
Steely Bones was our third place guy.
I did win this week.
So before you ask me how my week's been, we'll just start off with me, I guess, because it's all about me.
Well, hang on a second.
Before we get to that, don't forget to like, subscribe, click the bell to get alerts from the channel.
And let's see.
If you can't watch on YouTube, you can always download and listen via your favorite podcast service like Apple iTunes and Spotify, all that good stuff.
While you're at it, go to our Etsy shop, check out our t-shirts, hats, all that good stuff.
And you can email us at downlandpod at gmail.com.
And what else do I usually go over?
I don't know.
But tonight we're going to talk about our weekend like we always do.
And then we're going to get into the PBA Players Championship.
And also this earthy nonsense raising the hardness up.
We're going to talk about the scores for sure.
And how much this durometer readings really appears to not matter at all.
Because...
Kyle's got some opinions on the league already.
Yeah.
But yeah, the hardness levels clearly do not matter when it comes to urethane because it's wild out there.
So anyway, back to what Anthony was talking about.
This weekend, tournament club, Mark Roth, 42 feet.
The champion was talking.
Go ahead.
Yeah, so we showed up for tournament club.
It was our member guest, so we go on something a little softer.
I brought my button in.
We were leading for doubles after three, I believe, by a few sticks.
I ended up not having a great last game, either of us, so we weren't able to pull that out.
Second place in doubles, though.
That was good.
It was great to bring in a new guy, never bowled on a challenge pattern or any sort of PBA pattern.
So that was a blast because we had the practice session for everybody.
We actually formulated a game plan for him.
He followed it to a tee.
It just turns out the lanes played very similar.
So we had a great time there in terms of the singles portion.
You know, I'm still getting used to some of the new stuff we drilled after the new year, right before the new year.
So it is a good opportunity for me to throw some balls.
So, you know, we started with a troublemaker, found out that playing a little bit to the left, there just wasn't any good.
It wasn't any hang.
The ball just didn't retain enough energy.
So we balled into a theorem and we went off and run and,
i don't think i led but i think austin was austin was the leader for the four game qualifier i think i've missed him by a few 10 or 15 sticks i think
Yeah, I went plus like 110, 120 the last two.
Yeah, we did a two-game shootout where the four finalists all bowled on the same pair for finals.
And the leader got 30 extra bonus pins.
The second-place finisher got 20 extra bonus pins.
Third got 10, and the fourth got zero as you bowled in the two-game final shootout.
So it was kind of an interesting way to end the day, I think.
Yeah, definitely an interesting format.
It made a difference, though, because I don't know how much I won by.
I don't know if you do know.
So going into the first round I had been in the theorem since game two had bowled fairly well And we were on three and four where I shot 250 the lane I definitely transitioned from a guy who bowled there previously don't know what they did to that but it was not my friend funny enough Austin I think struck out for like 201
202.
Seven counted.
On the field ball?
Yeah.
Okay, so on the field ball, Austin throws seven.
If I strike out, I shoot 202.
I beat him by a stick, which gives you 10 extra bonus points.
That's right.
So I ended up punching out.
Every pin counts.
I ended up punching out, beating him by a stick.
So that actually basically made me very close to tied.
I still think you were the leader.
Alex was leader after the first game in the shootout.
But the first three were within 15 pins apart.
Yeah, we were like 15 pins apart, all three of us.
And then the last game, I was just lucky enough to find a way.
That was my low pair in qualifying.
So my high pair was 3-4 where I shot 250.
I shot 2-0 in that pair.
Going to 7-8, my low pair of the day, which was 190, I ended up getting to like 230 on that pair.
I bowled pretty well on it in qualifying.
It just didn't seem to happen.
The score didn't seem to happen.
I left a bunch of sevens, a wrap sevens, tried to make some moves.
The ball never got through the pins the way I needed it to go through the pins, so I can understand that.
But we went back to that pair, and maybe I transitioned them a little bit by myself.
Obviously, there is a little bit of wear and tear, so hopefully they did open up.
And, uh, they did.
So I ended up sneaking out the W, uh, never led that entire tournament, which is kind of sitting there waiting, waiting in the wings, waiting to strike.
Yeah.
And it was just predator.
It was just luck, uh, that, you know, um, that I ended up sneaking it out.
I kind of just edged out the other guys by just waiting and not making too many mistakes.
I definitely made way too many mistakes, but, uh,
I walked by Kyle both first game and second game, and I said, I can't make spares.
So the last two games, I only gave myself two or three chances each game to miss a spare, and I happened to make those.
The last game you shot, what, 279, 278?
278, yeah.
I was out of the cut at that point.
By the way, because Austin didn't get in the high game jackpot, I won the last game jackpot with a 221 game.
You can thank him.
Thank you and thank everyone else that didn't get in the jackpots.
He didn't share the money, just so everyone knows.
No, I did not.
I needed to cash somehow.
But yeah, pizza wings.
Anthony is so inattentive when he bowls.
No, he didn't know where he stands or how much he wins by or what he needs to win.
Or at least he claims he doesn't.
So winning by, yeah, I don't know how much I won by.
I knew I didn't.
You don't really need to know.
I mean, like, you know, you just got to get X's, man.
Yeah, you know, you're close.
So
For me, I knew we were all within 15 pins, and I knew I was roughly X amount from him, X amount from him.
I can calculate a score enough to where, hey, if I just win, I win.
Right?
Because I'm getting 30 extra pins.
Yeah.
So I would automatically basically win.
So it was like a winner-take-all game.
Winner-go-home, whatever you call it.
So, yeah, I mean, it was good.
The theorem rolled really well.
I was able to move in with that ball and get it to really corner off the edge, and then it also rolled pretty good when I was straight.
The troublemaker was just a little too finicky when there wasn't enough volume on the outside part of the lane, which I've been having a lot of problems with the house shot lately.
I don't want to say matching up because that's just not a thing on the house shot.
Everybody matches up.
I just think my balls are drilled too strong because, um, most of the new stuff that I've drilled with the new grip is for, you know, tournaments and stuff like that.
So I haven't really drilled anything that's a week or really cared enough to fix it.
Killer ball.
Yeah, I just haven't really cared enough to drill anything like that.
So, you know, I can't complain on the house shot.
But also I am working on controlling my front arm.
Your front arm compared to your back arm?
Yeah, my front arm.
Oh, your balance arm.
You don't have a front back arm?
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I know I talk weird, but I just... Some of us call that the balance arm.
Whatever.
Yeah.
It's my front arm.
I'm working on that.
I worked on that on Sunday when we were bowling.
I worked on that on Monday and Tuesday so far and last night.
I feel like I am getting a little better at it.
I think it kind of keeps my entry, my projection down lane a little straighter.
Yeah.
I think I roll the ball better comes off my hand a little more of a power position I'm the only thing I just got to make sure I don't try to do too much with the with my fingers I think that's the only thing is it allows me to be able to do more if I have to and I think it just kind of naturally happens a little bit yes since you mentioned that something I've been Working on as well because I got the flying eagle thing that I do with my left arm.
I
been a few people we've mentioned that.
Me and Nick, too.
I've done that forever, though.
My left arm just flies up in the air.
I couldn't tell you what mine does.
Ever since Mark Baker last week, I think we've been taking a little bit more of a deeper dive into looking at it.
I tried to walk as straight as I could, and the ball definitely went straighter down the lane.
I've done the opposite.
I've tried to drift left.
I've worked on that.
Wow, what a difference with the release.
Keeping the arms...
not straight but uh stable right now pizza wings agrees for me mark it down hit the b button
What's that?
If you think about it, it kind of makes sense.
Back leg, front leg equals slide leg.
Therefore, front arm coordinates with front leg.
Okay.
Okay.
It's official.
You two are both in another world on some other planet that we now know that we don't understand your language.
Okay.
We got it.
Okay.
Now you're a match made in heaven.
anyway so yeah controlling I'll call it your balance arm and not letting it kind of just free wheel out there definitely helps your release for sure stabilizes everything and for me it helped come through the ball a lot better and keeps the release way more consistent way more consistent yeah I think for me I don't know I think your arms a little more out to the side right
the... Left arm?
Oh, yeah.
Sideways, for sure.
Sideways, for sure.
Not in front of me.
I'm like a dog sniffing on the ground.
I'm very fast.
You're left to right on your front arm.
I go like this, and then that actually makes me go this way.
Just to try it, I just try to keep it a little more stable, a little more to my right, and then actually, instead of opening back up this way like I would normally do, where my shoulders would get back to square, I try to roll my shoulder up.
Yeah.
Which forces my shoulder down, but also gets my hand under the ball better.
So then my hands underneath it a little bit more for a little bit extra action.
That is something I'm working on.
ACT.
I do think that I am throwing it pretty well, regardless of the targeting, because we worked on last night you were here.
I do throw it pretty well, but when I move right, I've got to get that feel of getting around it without getting too far around it.
But that's just going to come in time with getting sharp and stuff.
We just started our practice for our Nationals teams.
We had 13 people here last night, which is pretty impressive at 9 o'clock.
Austin.
cricket cricket spirit crack my neck good yeah well we were talking about kind of using Mark Baker's terms like the earth like I was watching you throw the ball and when you get to the right you kind of were having a tendency to go from behind the ball and then like from I don't know we'll call we'll start in Mexico and end in Germany when you want to like
and in yeah i get around like china or uh i don't know how to describe it yeah flip it off man right um but uh but yeah like because it's just for lefties it's just unusual to be that far to the right you know what i mean do we need to do we need to bring a uh globe in
yeah it would work i mean at least from yeah it would work i mean at least from yeah it would work i mean at least from my vantage point i think i got that my vantage point i think i got that my vantage point i think i got that right as far as the countries go but right as far as the countries go but right as far as the countries go but i think i'm not 100 sure i'm thinking i think i'm not 100 sure i'm thinking i think i'm not 100 sure i'm thinking about it to see if you're right i have about it to see if you're right i have about it to see if you're right i have noticed my ball speed is going a little noticed my ball speed is going a little noticed my ball speed is going a little bit up too i don't know if that's just bit up too i don't know if that's just bit up too i don't know if that's just because it's more in line and it's because it's more in line and it's because it's more in line and it's coming through it i didn
yeah i have noticed my ball is much more powerful out of the hand um but the other thing is like when i move right like i like we said my hand does um gets a little bit around it my hand always gets around it um but i feel like if i can just slow myself down and not try to really make a big movement with my shoulder to get everything in line um i can slow the ball speed down and also get that ball to shape more correctly with my hand in the correct spot so
that's always my problem is just getting the ball my hand around the ball too much too it's just that's when i get grabby i go all the way around it i don't necessarily think i grab it i think i just i just flip it up and i just cut it short i don't grab i just cut short right on the right i don't know i'm interchanging terms i guess but like that's my problem is i you cut it short i go around it that's what your dad always says it's short he yells at me short yeah you are short i know yeah you are short yeah you do get short yeah that wrist under the ball like austin like you
And then what else are you talking about?
Oh, yeah, when I move right, just stay a little more firm on it.
Because, like, when I'm going right, there should be hook there.
Like, the ball should be hooking the mat.
Like, you shouldn't be moving right because there's no hook.
You should be moving right because there is hook, typically.
Right.
I've been trying to get my father to understand that.
You don't have to try to do more.
He moves right, and he thinks he has to force the ball instead of just staying relaxed.
I mean, it's just probably natural for the body to do that.
Typically, your body wants to change your tilt to make sure that the ball can react down lane to make sure you do have that hook.
What's up, Michael Polky?
How's it going tonight?
Well, we'll see what happens tonight.
I brought some new balls tonight for fun.
See what we got.
Theorem and hazmat.
See how they roll.
And maybe I can keep my fingers behind it, find the right ball, and kind of get comfortable in that zone or that area.
So that way when we go to the sports shots, I can know what that feel feels like.
Nice.
Because I got the feel.
I just got to get the feel right.
Got to stop thinking and just be more feel.
Nice.
I'm all feel.
What do you think, Kyle?
I think that's great.
I think we should talk about the PBA.
How's that sound?
Yeah, I mean, enough ranting about me and my successes and how great I am in tournament club.
So did it really matter, Kyle?
No.
Did it really matter?
No.
Between Purple Hammer and the Pitch Black?
No.
So I messaged Nick Harris today.
Nick Harris is one of our buddies.
He's my doubles partner.
so i said nick you're good at uh you're good at funny jokes quips if you will and uh i said i need a title for tonight because uh clearly urethane is still in play um because the guys are just shooting boatloads and they are shooting 300s all over the map tonight and everyone is still using urethane
so uh that was the title for tonight that the pba rule changes flip the association 360 degrees which means we're back where we started so to me like it doesn't matter i couldn't care less if the guys want to use your thing they want to use your thing but changing the the the rule clearly had no impact um and listen i get it everyone's gonna say
it was because the bowling balls were illegal or they changed to be illegal or got softer over time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But I don't think that that was the PBA's intention or the player's intention.
I think they were just mad at urethane, and it clearly didn't matter because it's still in play and it's still just scoring a boatload.
What do you think?
Well, due to the spherical image and how the radiation of gyration works...
Yeah, I think the association is flip 360 degrees.
You're back to where you are.
I don't think that your thing will be used as widely as the purple was.
Like as universally, like where you could use it on not every pattern, but like a wide variety of patterns before.
A lot of the guys used purple almost.
All the time.
Like a lot.
I believe it's Justin Knowles, if my mind serves me properly, which is not a lot.
Good luck.
I believe it's Justin Knowles.
He is a lefty two-hander for Hammer.
And from what I understand, he almost used the Purple Hammer exclusively for last year.
And he's like a two-hander.
I wonder if we have the actual stats on that.
Don't you have to report what balls you use in a block?
Yeah, but he used the purple hammer in every ball.
Like he used the purple hammer as every ball.
Is that right?
But no, yeah, but he's wondering if it's tracked somewhere.
No.
Yeah, I do wonder if the PBA actually keeps it somewhere.
I'm curious.
That would be interesting.
Kyle, get on it.
I will ask.
Email Tom.
So the purple has been used by him quite a bit.
Um, and then we see him today.
He's pretty high up there.
So, um, if he's continually using very similar, uh, equipment with the black and the, cause that has been announced, right?
I mean, that was on Facebook, social media while they're using it, they had to announce it before they use.
So the black, um,
which is quite a bit weaker than the purple i have i have used it a few times um i've seen it be a little bit cleaner a little bit straighter like four and two less than the purple it doesn't have that really defined hook shape but if justin knowles is using urethane and the blue hammer
Clearly, we're probably going to see similar stuff to the urethane stuff.
You see the IQ78s pretty stellar right now.
Yeah, they're mashing with that thing.
Cortez, yeah.
Cortez is going really good with it.
Anthony Levery Spar just shot .300 with the Black Hammer today.
And there's a lot of hammer players today.
in the top cut or not hammer but i should say brunswick players in the top cut so um clearly they're doing something right i have heard that quite a few widow 3.0s have been drilled um have seen a video on that that ball looks pretty insane so i heard they went from black pearl urethane to 3.0 widow that was tommy jones's arsenal for the past few days i've heard
I know Ogle drilled one.
I'm sure they're going like hotcakes because that ball's pretty good.
I saw a picture of Ogle's black urethane ball.
Looked like he rolled it in the parking lot.
Scorched.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scorched.
I'm a little surprised.
I mean, I've used mine a few times.
I've used 500 and 360 on it.
Kyle watched me throw it last night.
after i wore in the lane a little bit and it's definitely not as good as the purple um from where i was i'll have to play with a little more but on the fresh i threw like six strikes in a row with it yeah i was just a little straighter yeah this the pattern we were on last night is a little less volume than what they're on they're on 29 mils and we were on 26 25 we were on like 25 but at the same time we're bowling 41 feet they're bowling on 37 so yeah
You're talking about way more free friction down lane, way more peel probably off the gutter, way more concentration of oil in the front.
Ball's going to skate down the lane a little bit.
Yeah, true, true.
So it's definitely urethane's not going to go away.
I think it was just a ploy to get the purple hammer out of play.
Oh, for sure.
I think people were just sick and tired of being beaten by the purple hammer.
I just think that's just kind of how it went down.
So what are you going to do?
CEO Ron Hicklin is advocating 180 grit on the black pearl.
I think he might be advocating it for the average player.
He might be advocating it maybe for the other guys.
But from the guys, I haven't seen anybody else throw it besides the pro guys.
So their rev rates are all 450 plus or 400 plus.
So you really can't.
I can't gauge off of what he's doing because he's not.
I don't think he's 400.
He's got to be a little lower than that.
180 for him might be 360, 500 for myself.
I'm not saying that I'm stellar.
I think that makes sense.
I think 180 is way too low for a higher end player like a PBA player.
I think that'll
i think it just depends on the volume way too early i think it depends on the volume how the fronts are plus they use brunswick so the brunswick machines are a little bit different than the kegel machines so it depends on how everything plays out out there or how the lane surfaces do how about the uh the flip-flop between storm versus uh versus hammer being uh
hammer was the the go-to urethane you know for almost a decade now it has been quite a decade since the uh og purple but um and now all of a sudden they i mean it's only been one tournament so far but the iq has definitely seemed to be outshining right now um the black black pearl a lot more storm bowlers
There are quite a few.
Yeah, but that's always been the case.
There's a lot of things.
Yeah, but purple hammers.
That's what I'm saying.
Purple hammers always outshine pitch black.
I'd have to see the scores with the ball itself.
I'd have to do some math myself.
I think the 78 is a little better right now just because it's got a higher diff.
They definitely have more honor scores with it in the tournament.
For sure.
I was just going to say that silly post on Instagram today that they said red is the new purple, which is a little weird to me to actually admit it, but
I think it's – yeah, I don't know.
I watched it go down the lane.
I talked to a fellow lefty, Matt Pizzone, and he also did say that the red is just overall more hooked than the other ones they've had before.
So when I mean hook, I mean left to right.
I don't think it's front to back.
He's looking more left to right.
So they're saying that the IQ –
hooks or uh has more left to right movement than the pitch black yeah really well you would assume so because being harder yeah it's going to go down the lane further plus it has a bigger core in it um which probably helps it slow down more but also you're just going to create more overall motion with a bigger core right so they're trying to offset the hardness with a little bit of a bigger block it seems like
He said it was a little more overall than the other balls he's had.
Because he asked me, what do you think about the blue one and NU?
Yeah, look, there's an NU.
There's a few bowlers, so the NU and the average rec bowlers erroneously thought it was purple replacement.
Pizza Wings, Kyle did watch my blue roll down lane last night.
It is purple's replacement, to be completely honest with you.
It's really close.
Mine are, at least.
I've figured out how to get them to roll great, and Kyle just...
shook his head watching me throw this yesterday because I could throw the black, the purple, and the blue and probably get away with going to the USBC Nationals with just those three balls.
It is surprisingly really good.
Um, I have, I drilled three of them so far.
The last one is the best one, which is the one I threw last night, but I have got it very close.
Um, so, but yeah, I think it's interesting how the pros aren't throwing that ball.
I do understand it's resin and it's not picking air.
It picks up the lane shine quicker.
Um, but I'm surprised that it's not been more of an option.
Um, then, then the, the black hammer, black hammer is pretty relatively new.
I remember getting mine.
It wasn't even a month ago, I don't think.
So obviously it's urethane, so it doesn't really change too much.
But if you're trying to go off from purple to the black, they're completely different.
It did seem like they were really trying to push the blue as the new purple.
So I'm surprised that very few players have seen it gone down lane, very few of them.
yeah i haven't i don't know if i've seen any videos of the the blue at the tournament that's what i'm saying yeah and and if the if the black's not working all that well although i had a lot of brunswick guys up there yeah so or even a transition piece right to go from black to blue i don't know unless if you transition out of it you got to go big right you got to go from black to something really weak
usually speaking of transition i'm curious what the difference is transition wise or how it's going to be this year having the 78u and and if they do start throwing the new obviously the new is still kind of surfacy but it looks like for the most part a lot of the 78 user definitely on the shiny side still
like the uh the balls themselves they look shiny going down whether it's lane shine or well it's got to be lane shine yeah typically lower lower drummer balls from what i understand are lower or softer bowling balls from what i understand hold surface better that's what i was told so like when they raise it to 78 the balls don't hold surface like the purple hammer they keep like the where you sand it to better
Yeah, so if I take my purple and go to 500, then I take my black and go to 500, throw the same amount of shots in them.
From what I was told, the black will be a higher grit when you check it than the purple would be.
The purple is going to hold that 500 longer, while the black one is going to go to 800, 900, whatever.
Right.
Which the Blue Hammer does not hold surface the best, in my opinion.
It's great ball.
Kyle watched me mash two different Blue Hammers up at a tournament.
Only on a couple pairs, though.
Except for two or three.
Out of eight.
So it's not terrible.
But out of those balls, they do shine up fairly quickly for me.
So they would... In all honesty, if I was going to use that at a regional in eight games, I'm probably going to have four.
Yeah.
Because it's just...
yeah you need to if the surface is going to change that much you need to be able to get a fresh right the resin doesn't hold surface as well as urethane yeah um some balls clearly don't hold
They don't hold their surface as well as other bowling balls do.
There's a fact of that.
You watch a ball.
You're like, man, this ball just shines up quick.
That blue one does.
The black is probably second quickest.
It goes blue, black, and then the purple holds it the best.
So that's why a lot of guys like the purple too because you could probably get two or three games out of it and then ball into a fresh one.
All right, so mission not accomplished for the PBA, or at least the PBA Players Committee, by not getting the urethane out of play.
I don't think you can say that yet.
We're on 37 feet.
I mean, if the gutter's open and there's friction on the front part of the lane, because it is a Bolero center, so I don't know.
I think they use Brunswick panels still.
Even though they still use Brunswick, I'm sure that the front part of the lane is still going to hook, so...
And 37 feet, I'm going to assume that those guys are 100% kind of with urethane.
Also, a guy that we bowled in the regionals, Will Vodilich, I don't know how to say his name, lefty no-thumber, basically exclusively uses urethane.
I don't know if he's got IQ 78s because you can't get a black yet.
because I don't think he's a staffer.
Maybe he is.
I don't know.
So if he's got it, he can only maybe have one or two.
I don't think they really sent out more than one.
You could only get one when they sent him out.
So he's got to be throwing some other stuff.
But he was in the top 12 up until game 12.
Wow.
I'm not saying that he doesn't use resin, but 98% of the time he's always got purple hammer.
So I'm sure that he found some sort of ball to use.
Right.
Sorry to end it.
No, that's fine.
Now, score-wise, Tom Smallwood in the lead, averaging 240. 240.33.
Um, which, uh, good to see, uh, Tom Smallwood up there.
No, you're not a, you're a thing guy.
Right.
It really doesn't have your thing.
That's right.
Yeah.
But he never, but they don't, I never see one of the motive guys using the, the microcell thing anyway.
Um,
I wonder what he is using.
They didn't post anything from the PBA, so we wouldn't really be able to see what he's throwing.
Tackett was on a rise.
Yep, Tackett's bowling.
He's somewhere top 10.
And so, yeah, those two are doing well.
But what do you guys think about the scores being as super high as they are for a major opening up the season?
That's my complaint.
It's a major.
Yeah.
Why are they averaging 240?
They're really good.
mean you can make them not average 240. yeah um obviously i mean look at the other majors that they bowl in the u.s open and masters and everything else yeah where they average 200. yeah um i i don't know if they're trying to garner interest in the first tournament of the season like i don't know if they think that um the average joe
cares about high scores and thinks that it gets people to watch.
I don't know if that's their mindset.
I'm just speculating, guessing, trying to throw darts at the wall.
I believe Justin Knowles is the left-handed two-hander.
I believe I'm correct.
Yes, it looks like he is.
Oh, yeah, Steely Bones.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Do you think high scores will draw in that casual fan more?
So, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if that's what it is.
But it's just a lot of strikes, I guess.
So maybe.
But I don't know why.
So you got the PTQ.
Those guys averaged, what, 220?
It was about 120, wasn't it?
Something like that.
It was 120 over, but I believe it was an eight game block.
Yeah.
To make the cut.
It was plus 132.
Okay.
1582.
So 132, seven game, seven game block.
Seven times... What did I say it was?
I'll find out.
1,500, 1,582.
1,532.
1,532.
Divided by seven.
I do know.
2,18.
That's from Viper.
That was on Viper.
Yeah, so that Viper is 38 feet.
Yeah, they used something fairly close.
And it was a very similar pattern build, just the... Shoot, what is...
this is a wayne webb this is a wayne webb this is a wayne webb um the pat the tournament is on um the pat the tournament is on um the pat the tournament is on wayne webb it is like just wayne webb it is like just
built into the middle a little bit more whereas Viper is the middle is flatter so like the ratio is very close but like if you were to look at the pattern graph just by visual the Wayne Webb looks more like a house shot and Viper looks more flat so I guess the scores look or would assume to be harder or lower on Viper
I'm just trying to find it.
They don't have it.
You can't download everything yet, I don't think.
Like on the pattern?
The WayneWeb one, you can.
I can pattern that down.
You can download WayneWeb, yeah.
Well, I can't download it on Kasi.
That's what I was going to do.
Oh, excuse me.
Sorry.
You can get the PDF, though.
I was going to download the and put it onto my computer and see what the ratio was.
Austin, you were going to say?
It's 2.5, I think.
All I know is after nine games of qualifying, first place was average in 260.
Yeah, that's ridiculous.
That's insanity.
How do you know it was 260?
There's got to be seven or eight 300 games already.
It was 260 for the first six.
It was a leader.
Second was 250.
You're going around two, and then it was 244, and then it stayed right around 240.
There are exactly seven 300 games, yes.
Then round three, it went to 240.
I mean, they are dropping.
I mean, obviously, I think it's, first of all, these are the greatest players in the world, so you cannot knock how good these players are.
Plus, if they're given the gutter, how hard can it be?
Right.
Most of the time when they play to the right, the scores are pretty high.
Yeah, because they can get the ball to peel back, then it's move left, throw at it.
Right.
I think that's what me and Kyle are getting at.
The pattern may be too easy for a major.
Oh, really?
Okay.
So now we're going to go to 45 feet, and you're going to wipe the lefties out, so that way the scores are lower.
That's not necessarily true.
There's a 32-foot flat pattern that the U.S.
Open uses, but you're not very happy with that one.
That one's stupid.
i'm just saying uh or i think it's 36 feet whatever um i guess i guess the problem is i guess i did see some complaining on the interwebs from people um about how it's not really made about shot making anymore well that was ruined when the two handers came into the game the two handers can just overpower the lane uh which forced the one handers to have to be different and better and the lane the lane
The lanes aren't really maintained, I don't think.
I think they're made to have a nice look throughout.
But I think when you have guys who are
Working out now instead of drinking beers like back in the 80s or 90s.
These guys are pretty ripped and they're physically pretty good condition.
I mean, and with the bowling balls that the game has come along with, it's not their fault.
I don't think you can really fault these guys for having high scores.
If you're going to fault anybody, the PBA needs to put in a hardness rule that is harder.
So that way the less oil gets absorbed, which means that when they put that much oil out, the blades can't transition as much.
Um, they can't transition as much.
And, uh, therefore we don't really have to worry about, uh, all this overpowering stuff happening.
Uh, you make the, I think if you made the resin stuff harder, um, and kept the rules within where it is now, I think that the balls wouldn't be able to do as much, which means, Hey, you'd have to be a little bit more of a shot maker.
I, you really can't complain to about the players scoring high.
Uh, it's not the player's fault.
Not at all.
No, I'm just saying, I mean,
you you're gonna give somebody 37 feet i mean yeah i'll be honest with you i'm probably gonna whack it too you give these guys that are out there that's what i'm saying uh a ball yeah you give a ball like what they got on a pattern of what they got and they'll eat it up they'll eat it for freaking breakfast lunch and dinner i mean they're doing it every day i but i do question i do have i do have a question did anybody watch delmo's vlog of the first day that he called
Did not.
Okay.
I would highly suggest you go watch because, listen, I know Kyle doesn't like two-handers, whatever, Kyle.
Look at him smile over there with that little smile.
I love two-handers.
I watched Belmo bowl the first block of this, and it's like I don't want to see he hasn't bowled.
But it just seemed like he was kind of going through the motions.
He's walking up.
He's kind of just keeping it close.
Plopping it out there.
Bowling pretty, all right.
He's like, ah, I made some mistakes in there.
And then he goes out and he goes, well, here I come.
I'm back now.
And I'm kind of watching him like, well, it looks a lot more comfortable now.
Looks like, you know, he goes, I just came off the plane.
I'm still jet lagged.
And I'm like, hold on.
If you were like really worried about it, you'd get here a few days before.
You would have spent some time at Storm HQ.
Then you would have made a short hop, skip, and a jump over.
But he was like...
I was just over at the pool with my kids because, you know, it's Australia.
So it's where he's like, ah, just got off the plane, little jet lag here.
And I'm like, geez, this guy is really not too concerned about it.
Still put out a pretty decent show.
I'm pretty sure they got another block to go.
But I was kind of surprised.
I'm like, that just tells you how good the guy is and how good he can read the lanes and do it.
But at the same time, I don't know if he's been practicing or not, but.
Should that kind of happen?
Should he look like whatever you said?
Should he look like that and be able to whack him that good?
You know what I mean?
And listen, he might have been practicing.
I don't know.
But when I watched him and how he kind of just acted and how he got off the plane and he didn't seem too concerned with anything.
And granted, I didn't see him in person, but then he turned it on the next day.
Like he was like, oh, yeah, I'm feeling good now.
It's just a little different for me.
Because usually those guys go in and they're lasered.
Something tells me he is a mind game player.
Like, if you had to cross with him, you would probably be screwed.
Well, actually, they're doing pretty good because Schneck crossed with him.
Unless you're like me and Anthony and we don't pay attention to the other people.
right if you're in your own world that's good right if you're in your own world that's good right if you're in your own world that's good but uh yeah but my all i'm saying is but uh yeah but my all i'm saying is but uh yeah but my all i'm saying is like like like if uh if you see a guy's just like if uh if you see a guy's just like if uh if you see a guy's just like hey guys what's up hey guys what's up hey guys what's up yeah i'm just gonna walk up and just yeah i'm just gonna walk up and just
It was weird.
He did have some bad games, but still.
But just not be phased by it.
That's just like, you know, who cares?
And then just come in the next day and be like, all right, fine, I'll just actually start throwing strikes.
I'm back.
I guess it's time to get to the top 20.
That can totally mess with your head.
You know what I mean?
So...
And he's like, yeah, I just figured out some stuff.
And I'm like, man, you're figuring out as you go along.
I mean, I'd be average 180 if I'm trying to figure it out.
Right, right, right.
Just speaks about how pretty, you know, how good he really is.
I am going to look for him to see 180 for having a good bad day.
Yeah.
Belmani was shaking off 224.
But you watch his video.
I kid you not.
I watched the video.
I said, I'm like, is he being serious right now?
Or is he just letting people get handicapped on him so he can just run people over?
Because then he went from that.
And he didn't jump too much.
I mean, he jumped up five pins.
He went to 229.
And then the first round of today, I don't know how he bowled because I hadn't seen the scores.
It looked like he didn't have a great day.
Yeah, but he's in 15th now.
Oh, he's in 15th.
I must have missed him.
Okay, he did have a good day.
He went up another five pins.
So he will be averaging 240 by the end of this because he's gone up five pins every round.
And, yeah, he didn't seem concerned about it at all.
So it was very interesting to watch.
And I'm watching him throw the IQ 78, and I'm like, it doesn't even really look like he's kind of trying.
He's just kind of keeping it, you know.
It was just very weird.
And then he was talking about his daughters texting him and stuff.
I'm like, this dude's not even worried.
But he's like, oh, yeah, he's not talking about the lanes.
He's not talking about, well, you know, I'm in 45th in a 90-person field.
No, he's talking about, yeah, my daughter texts me 78 times because she's eight.
And I'm like, dude, what are you, like, we're not talking lanes.
We're not drilling.
He just didn't seem phased.
Yeah.
Didn't seem at all.
No.
Then he ran everybody over the next two blocks, apparently.
Well, had to go pretty darn good the next two to go up 10 pins on average.
Yeah.
But yeah, it was very interesting to see.
But the lanes, they look scoreable.
I don't know what else you're going to do, Kyle.
What would you want?
I would just expect them to be a little flatter.
That's all.
2.7 flat.
Like we said, it's got the gutter.
If the gutter's in play... Go to 1.5, go to 1.7.
You know, I'm just saying you've got to make them a little harder just to bring down the average a little bit.
Does that really matter in a field this good?
In a field like that?
I guess not.
In games that long, you've got four blocks to make a good run at it.
It just seems silly to have a 240 average.
I mean, in my opinion.
Does it really matter?
No.
So then what's the point of bowling on Cheetah?
I don't know.
Cheetah's the highest I want.
It's about the same.
Exactly.
You're talking 37 feet versus 33 feet.
Still very flat.
But if the gutter's in play, these guys, like we just talked, they're going to make it happen.
These guys are good.
How about our buddy Billy O?
He didn't really get to sniff a lot last year, and he's running in 12th right now.
I did hear he dropped down to 12 pounds.
Not really.
Not really.
He went back to 15.
He did go back.
Oh, he went back to 15 halfway through the year last year.
Wait.
So remember, we text.
Yeah.
Hey, we got any chance you've got a 14 or lying around.
He's like, no, we're out.
Listen, Anita, I've never seen you even sniff the gutter.
So I don't want to hear you asking about the gutter.
All right.
The gray board does the same thing every time.
But it is definitely interesting to see how they're playing.
I actually did sign up for a PTQ as they said they were opening up the field for Delaware.
I did sign up.
I am on the wait list.
But I signed up because they opened the field up.
I don't know if they've moved it yet.
Never say never.
But...
Yeah, well, when they said they were going to open up, I figured I'll throw my name on there and see what happens because it's only four hours.
I've been there before.
I got a little bit of a lay of the land because why not?
It's close enough.
You know what I mean?
It's only $250.
And I think top third cash.
And then if you make the cut, you've got to pay the extra $250 to get into the main field, which doesn't make sense because if you cash, then why are they paying to get in the main field?
PBA might want you to rethink that.
No kidding.
That doesn't make sense.
Because I think it's a $500 entry or something like that to pay the main field.
Yeah, the main field is $500.
So you're paying $250 to get to the main field.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Why would you have to pay once you just be slotted in?
It should be like you won money.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
But, yes, they're saying, okay, you paid $250.
The winner gets $250.
Now you've won seven games.
So give me another $250.
And see if you can cash against the best in the world.
But just give me more money.
So why wouldn't it be you win, get $250?
Sorry, Austin.
You win, get $250.
The next guy gets $200.
So then he owes $50.
Yeah.
Instead of being like, ah, just give me more money and we'll see.
No, but every guy that gets in owes $250, right?
I understand that.
I'm asking all top 10 or 15 guys that make it in.
But if they get 60 guys in the PTQ at 250 a rip and you don't have to pay for lineage, then where is that money going?
All that money goes back into the prize fund.
Yeah, but why wouldn't you just pay for the PTQ guys to get in?
So that way it's like, hey, you guys did a good job.
Good job, guys.
We're friends.
Thanks for coming.
And are they getting in the next week or no?
Did they change that rule?
They still didn't change that rule back?
I don't know.
So...
You should know, member.
Talking about PTQs here.
On Storm's post about Cortez's one of his 300s.
He was a PTQ.
There was multiple comments asking why in the world is the rookie of the year pulling in PTQs?
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Agreed.
I was thinking about this in the shower today.
I'm not going to lie.
We got people that are just watching videos on Facebook.
Obviously, they know enough about it to question that.
People are asking about it.
Yeah, I don't get it either.
I don't understand.
It makes zero sense.
I think we've talked about it enough.
I'm not going to elaborate.
The fields are too small.
The PTQ makes no sense.
If you're going to make these guys actually bowl, the cream's always going to rise to the top, plus they get the truck and they get all the ball reps to know them a little bit better.
I mean, there's just better odds that they're going to make it.
So why are we capping the field?
I just don't understand it.
And now this rookie of the year, yeah, great, here's your trophy.
By the way, you've got to bowl every PTQ.
Listen.
It's fine to cap the field, and it's fine to have a PTQ.
They've been doing that forever.
As long as PBA's been around, they've had PTQs, and they've had the main field.
Yeah, but they've had the fields where 120 people.
Understood.
But what I'm saying is you can't...
if you get in one week why should you have to get back in again like you should have if you get in one week you should be automatically in the main field again next week like you earned your spot into the main field this week he he bowled and did not make the main field that's what i thought he had to ptq and he did i know he's a ptq guy now yeah he was a his name was above mine in delaware
So that's a rough way to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So anyway, yes.
If you are a PTQ bowler and you and you make it in one week to the main field,
Why do you have to go back down to the PTQ again?
I don't even care about that.
I'm talking about the rookie of the year.
I get you.
What's the point?
I mean, I don't think it's 100% necessary to just throw him.
If you win something, you should be in the main field.
I'm sure they're going to say, well, he's a rookie.
There's not as big as a field.
Well, it doesn't make a difference.
But how do you also justify rookie of the year if you have one guy who got points?
Right.
Oh, you won because you made one main field event.
Well, that's the thing, too, is that the and you got the rookie of the year qualifiers or nominees, I should call them.
How do they get real points if they're bowling PTQs every week?
Like, do you give points based on PTQs or are you giving points based on how many main fields you made?
Because then the person who makes the most main field, I guess technically, he would just win.
I can't imagine it's PTQs because I don't know that those are technically PBA events, right?
I don't know.
I'm confused.
My brain hurts.
This is such a roundabout process.
It makes no sense.
Well, yeah, but I don't think you get points for them.
Can't get points for them.
Can't get points for them because you're not competing against the other PBA players.
Wrong.
You've got to be a PBA member.
I understand.
So why wouldn't you get points to make it?
Because the other guys didn't have a chance to make points at that point.
Well, they get automatic points from bowling every week.
I don't know the rules.
Whatever it is, if you're exempt, you literally get points almost every week.
You have an opportunity.
These guys have to make the field every time.
I definitely agree.
A guy who's 40th every week and gets, let's say, 100 points is always going to be guaranteed an opportunity to get 100 points, while the PTQ guys got to get in and then be in the top 40.
It makes zero sense.
Yeah, Kyle, we're back.
Did you guys watch the Elite League?
No.
What day was it?
Did you?
I watched about 10 minutes of it.
I watched their posts about what was going on, and I saw that most of the games were sweeps.
Yeah, I saw something on FaceBase.
FaceBase or Instagram, and I just scrolled by.
Sorry, I can't wait to hear Kyle's thing.
Kyle's hot take.
As soon as Mark last week, Mark Baker, who was on the show last week, as soon as he was like, yeah, I'm only going to make it to the two TV episodes that I have to go to.
I was like, wait a minute.
So you're not going to all of your team's events to
To coach them or manage them, whatever you want to call it.
So then they're managerless.
And then some other teams will have managers and other teams won't.
So, for example, the other night when the league was on, one of the teams had a manager there.
The other teams didn't.
It was weird.
And it's like, if you're going to do something, meaning the league, do it right.
Don't half-ass it.
Either have the managers there or don't.
But one team shouldn't have an advantage over the other because you're not going to pay the guy.
If you're going to have them be a manager...
pay the guy to be a manager.
And I understand Mark's got a business to run and everybody else has a pro shop or a business to run.
But if you want managers, then they should be fully vested, invested into being a manager of that team and be there managing the team.
I don't understand why we're, and this is not the only problem with the league watching on bowl TV was atrocious.
We're just watching one camera angle from the back.
they're just milling around i have no idea what's going on four camera views in one shot by the way um which a lot of people liked i couldn't stand it i was watching on my phone so it was terrible but um anyway i know i'm the the complainer you can call me angry elf whatever you want but that whole thing with was there any energy no zero zero energy people watching on the stream no
Oh, I don't know.
How would I know?
Can't see anything other than just the backs of the bowlers' heads and then a bowler bowling.
They don't have a viewer count, probably.
No, he's talking about in the house.
Oh, live?
Yeah.
I'm sure there had to be people there.
Fans were behind.
Yeah, but there was no way of knowing.
No.
And they separated all the pairs by a pair.
So there was four teams bowling, or excuse me, four matches bowling.
they were all separated by a pair so you know uh there's a lot of empty space um but uh yeah it just wasn't yeah wasn't exciting to watch on on the stream but uh as far as i don't know you want to call it fairness or whatever you know you've got some teams with managers some teams without it just doesn't it just seems fake you know they're bowling for real but it just seems fake more as a practice session
Yeah, I did.
I'm looking on their website right now and they eventually are going to have individual player stats for the league.
Yes, they will get to know their like strike percentage, stuff like that, I'm assuming.
Right.
But like like Mark said, he's only required to be at the TV show ones.
So it's like, well, we just want you to be at the TV show one.
So it looks like we're doing it for real right there.
But when it's not on TV and it's just live streamed, you don't have to be there because we're just faking it.
Well, I mean, I can see that.
Well, yeah, you can see it, but why are we doing it then?
If it's not real, then why are we just BSing it?
I don't know.
You know, Kyle, I can understand where they're coming from and where they can't have the people fly out all the time.
but they paid the coaches.
Yeah.
But I mean, that's what I'm saying.
But if they don't want to pay the coaches, then don't have the coaches.
You know, that's, that's the other thing.
I mean, I just don't think they're going to pay the coaches.
So they might as well just not have any, or they should have player managers at least.
If that's sad, instead of a difference.
Exactly.
Because like Domo has an advantage in a sense now, because exactly.
He's on the lanes and he knows more.
I mean, I shouldn't even say an advantage because all the players obviously see it, but they have to manage themselves.
Well,
While Belmont was making the rules.
Was Parker Bowman there this week?
I don't even remember.
I'd hope so, seeing as his son's bowling in the tournament, I'm pretty sure.
Who was he again?
Parker Bowman?
At least he bowled the PT team.
Jerk.
Oh, yeah, so they did bowl.
I don't remember if he was there.
What if they took the non-Elias Cup team or players from the tour on the exemplist and made them coaches?
Instead of having coaches that aren't bowling necessarily on the tour, you have someone that's there every week.
Here's your answer, Austin.
Here's your answer.
Here we go.
Ready, everybody?
Your ball reps are now your coaches.
And you have a Brunswick, a Hammer, a Columbia team, a Storm, a Roto-Griffin, and you do it that way and your ball reps are already there and you do it that way.
Done and done.
They're already out there.
Might as well just use them.
You're welcome.
Again, you can take my idea again.
It's fine.
I don't need any credit.
They're there.
Might as well use the ball reps.
I agree with you.
Make it three-man bakers.
I don't know.
The people out there or the people that are currently the quote-unquote managers are a little more well-known than the ball reps.
Okay.
Really?
Who's the offensive coordinator for your Dolphins?
I don't know.
Who's your defensive coordinator?
Talk about the Dolphins.
Tough game out of them.
I'm just saying.
No faith.
Anyway.
First of all, Mike McDaniels is your head coach.
He is the head dude.
He's big time.
Yeah, we get it.
Who's your defensive coordinator?
Told you.
I don't know.
I don't care.
Exactly my point.
So then why does the freaking coach matter?
Nobody goes to watch the coach play the game.
True.
If I want to go watch the best coach in the world,
60% of fans.
Bill Cowher, he's on TV.
I ain't going to go watch TV.
The coaches mean zero.
So nobody goes to watch the coaches.
So who gives a flying rat's ace who the coaches are?
I don't.
I sure don't.
To be fair, there is not a lot of diehard Baltimore fans.
I think there's more diehards than you think.
More than you think, Austin.
Bite your tongue.
There's definitely more than I think.
I don't think the coaches matter.
The coaches are irrelevant.
It doesn't matter who's coaching.
As far as the viewer experience.
Pinocchio could be coaching.
And if somebody wants to watch Belmo, they're going to watch Belmo.
As far as the viewer experience, yes.
But as far as having a coach there versus not having a coach there, you shouldn't have one team that has it and another team that doesn't because you're not willing to pay them.
Is Belmo really a coach, though?
Technically, he's another player.
I understand that.
So use the ball reps.
Boom.
Pizza wings.
I'm a fan of both diehard and bowling.
Me too.
You think about it.
You got Mark Baker from Storm.
You got Wolf from Brunswick.
Okay, they have their own team.
Boom.
Storm, Brunswick.
Then you got Roto Grip and you got
I don't know.
Columbia, you got Dino Castillo, and then Roto Grip has somebody else.
I don't know.
The ball rips a lot from Tim Mack, is it, or whatever.
Whoever Roto Grip's got as a ball ripper, because I don't know them as well, they've got their own team.
They manage the team.
It just makes so much more sense.
They are already at the events.
I agree with you.
I like it.
I told you I agreed.
I told you I agreed.
I agreed with you with the whole manufacturer
team cup thing that you came up with instead of doing this uh i don't know elite league anyway whatever they got going on right yeah so having the ball reps doing the coach or managing would uh would already be icing on the cake so there you go get rid of these uh managers parker bone i mean give me a break he's a baller team you could do it
He can still be a player.
Obviously, they won last year.
Lefty Love.
Lefty Love.
What are you doing?
That's my new shirt.
That's your call sign?
No, it's my new shirt.
I've been working on the logo.
Lefty Love.
Anyways, I mean, you can still keep it on the team.
I'm just saying it makes a lot more sense to do it that way than to do it any other way.
All right.
Yes, sir.
I agree with you.
I like it.
Go for it.
Call Tom Clark.
Nope.
Get him on the horn.
Nope.
I thought you were writing the email.
All right.
I'll write the email.
You send it.
I'll give you his email address.
I'm not particularly too worried about it.
They can do whatever they want and do it how they see fit.
Maybe they have bigger plans than that, but like we said, the signing would be way more important and everything like that.
It's backwards on camera, so it would have to be this way.
All right.
Well, guys, thanks for joining us tonight.
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And like, subscribe, click the bell to get alerts, do all that good stuff.
And you can always email us at downlinepod at gmail.com.
It is time for us to go bowling, so we will see you soon, Steely Bones.
And yes, Jeremy, we agree, free TW.
And I will leave you all with this very shortly.
Not going to say much, but I will say always look for the truth when it comes to your bowling family.
Look for the truth.
All right, folks.
Don't believe everything you see on the Internet.
That being said, thank you to Jack Skatia, proprietor of Town & Country Lanes.
Austin, great show tonight.
Anthony, good show.
Let's see.
Thank you to my family, Stephanie, Zach, and Ethan.
We will see you guys next week.
This is Downlane Podcast.
Yeah, I was going to say.
I ain't letting them forget it.
We'll catch you next week.